Comments on Reconciliation Ecology: To catch a neutrino in the tiger's den

I have been witness to the debate about the INO p...

2008-08-01T23:37:38.776-07:00

I have been witness to the debate about the INO project, which has been intense and personal. I have friends on both sides of the divide.
Having grown up in this region and witnessed the ecologically damaging changes over the years, I foresee nothing but disaster if the INO project is implemented. It will increase disturbance, noise, water pollution, influx of migrant labour who will live off the forests and wildlife, as has happened with the PUSHEP project.
This will pave the way for other projects to be implemented in critical wildlife habitats. The conservation and other benefits to this region are not obvious.
Surely we can find a less sensitive site to locate this nationally important project.

Anonymous (the same? or a new one? hard to know, e...

2008-07-27T19:55:00.000-07:00

Anonymous (the same? or a new one? hard to know, eh?),

To be honest, I'm not in the know about how these projects get clearance either! So I join you in calling for much more transparency and accountability in these decisions. As for your feelings towards elite ecologists, let me say that there are as many "ill-informed" ecologists and scientists as there are "well-informed" non-academic conservationists. I'd go even further (at the risk or annoying some of my ecologist colleagues) and acknowledge that some of the more lasting conservation successes in India have come through the efforts of non-academic grassroots conservationists, not "elite" ecologists (although we might have a different argument about the term "elite"). There are even instances where limited ecological knowledge has caused more problems and exacerbated things by jumping to the wrong "solutions".

Come to think of it, one point most of us ecologists readily acknowledge even in our teaching is that while real-world conservation relies on some ecological expertise, it is much more dependent upon expertise in other realms: such as policy, economics, politics, communication. I'd also suggest that name-calling does not accomplish a whole lot if one is interested in effecting some genuine change. And much needs to change in India when it comes to many of these issues. We can talk more about that, but, let's not stray too far from the subject of this particular discussion.

Back to the INO, the issues you raise are indeed very important, and must be addressed comprehensively. Let me ask you though - are you arguing that it is inherently impossible to solve the problems, and make room for such a project without harming conservation, even in principle? Or that it is not realistic to expect any promises of minimal impact to be kept given the socio-political circumstances prevailing? If the latter, then yes, I'd agree with you that the evidence from past projects is not that great, so one cannot really trust the projects.

However, I would like to think that it is still possible (inherently) to reconcile some of these other projects and conservation. It may require some drastic changes to the way we do things in India, both for ecologists and for grassroots activists. But it is doable, and frankly, we have to try different models of doing business for long-term success in conservation, because the current models haven't really worked all that well. Simply trying to hold things off with our backs to the wall doesn't work. As you say, perhaps no project since Silent Valley has ever been stopped for environmental reasons. If that is the case, how effective do you think it will be to keep saying NO? If the powers that be don't listen?

An alternative I suggested in the above post is to say to the INO: OK, let me see your environmental impact report and make sure it really is a good one; let us come up with real mitigation measures (not just ones that look good on paper); let us get independent (and fair) evaluation of the EIA and mitigation proposals; and if we can find ways to do this with minimal impact, let us keep a close eye on every aspect of the project as it is implemented, so that we can shut it down if any of the promises are broken. We really have to hold their feet to the fire and make sure they keep to the narrow path promised, and not allow any of the bad things you list to happen.

And I'd argue that the INO is a better opportunity to try such a different model than those other large-scale projects you mention because at least some (if not most) of the physicists involved have a better developed environmental conscience than the bureaucrats, engineers, or businessmen behind the other projects be they dams, power-plants, or ports. I may be naively optimistic, but I do believe we have an opportunity to do things the right way here, if we are willing to put in the work, on both sides.

I am tired of us conservationists constantly being on the losing side and going hoarse screaming "NO" into the pr

Could you enlighten us on how various projects lik...

2008-07-26T23:44:12.314-07:00

Could you enlighten us on how various projects like these (example, Sethusamudram project, where there are not even good studies on the biodiveristy of the area) gets clearence in India? If one can not understand how no project in India has been stopped in the last 30 years or so on environmental/ecological grounds, it just shows the unholy alliance between the various agencies. The last megaproject that would have been stopped on the grounds of environmental conservation could be the Silent Valley project. Overnight ecological/environmental impact assessments can be cooked up by "reputed" agencies to get clearence to any project, esp. in India. It does not look very bright for the future of environmental conservaion in India with mediocre science playing bigger roles and taking arrogant stand towards everyone who does not hold "degree" from a university. Good conservation efforts should appreciate the role of "ill-informed" laymen too in bringing many of these issues atleast to the discussion table. Or is it that the conservation issues meant for only the elite "ecologist"?

There are many issues which may look very small compared to the megaproject that may come through, which would be sidelined and overlooked in the excitement to get the project. For example, the issue of large number of workers who would be migrating to the forest area for constrction work, their fuel needs, waste generated, hunting insticts for small game animals, etc. or for example, how do you store the debris in the same site (By violating some basic principles of science!) and create a tunnel?
Given the opportunity to the contractors, they will go and dump the debris in various places in the forest areas and show that the site is clear.... and waht about the pressure in future to build a township for the scientists and the visiting fellows? and the modern facilities that they would want? ........

Anonymous - I read your comment on the other threa...

2008-07-20T13:34:23.736-07:00

Anonymous - I read your comment on the other thread first. I guess it was intended more for this thread, right? So let me repeat my response here as well.

I have tried to do some digging on the Tiger Reserve issue, and did get some confirmation through colleagues active in the area that Mudumalai and Anamalai have recently been included in the network. So I am happy to stand corrected on that point. Note that it is still not listed as such on the Project Tiger website.

That still doesn't address the issues I tried to raise here - and I have done so even-handedly. It is not clear if the area affected by the INO is within the newly notified Tiger Reserve, or where the reserve boundaries are. While the notification apparently calls for relocation of people from some areas, I haven't come across any mention of PUSHEP being relocated.

I don't understand your need to insult people, or to suggest that some scientists' motives are inherently suspect while another who is a visiting fellow at Oxford is completely above board. Nevertheless, I do appreciate the link to the NBR Alliance website, which does seem to address the issues more deliberately, so I will read that more carefully. I'm still unclear on the exact legal status of the affected area, however - because if the Tiger Reserve status substantially changes the legal standing (as implied by you and others who have emphasized Mudumalai now being a Tiger Reserve), shouldn't that automatically place greater legal hurdles to block the INO? Or are you suggesting that there has been some conspiracy on the part of various govt. agencies including the MoEF, the TN Forest Dept., and Project Tiger, and organizations such as SACON and Care Earth to permit the INO without regard to its impacts? I would like to know more if that is the case, so please continue to enlighten me!

Well well..Other than your pompousness it was ente...

2008-07-20T11:56:14.160-07:00

Well well..
Other than your pompousness it was entertaining and informative indeed. Strange that neither daniels nor vencatesan comments on the Tiger Reserve.
It IS a tiger reserve my pedigree chum..
http://news.indiainfo.com/2008/04/06/0804062240_tiger.html
http://www.hindu.com/2005/06/29/stories/2005062913270300.htm
And perhaps you should also look at www.nbralliance.wordpress.com to update yourself on the issue.
Also strange that such eminent scientists have the time to comment on such blogs. Even eminent scientists need to eat, and a failing NGO with no work may need to sell its soul to survive.
I think you, Dr. Katti, should take a little more time to look into the issue, and make the effort perhaps also talk to other scientists who are genuinely busy protecting the Biosphere, before you decide to take such strong stands.
Perhaps you should also google the author of the article. Somehow I find it difficult to believe a visiting fellow of Oxford university would be prone to exaggeration and outright lies as Vencatesan seems to suggest.

Well said, as well as being an entertaining read. ...

2008-07-07T08:38:29.586-07:00

Well said, as well as being an entertaining read. My thoughts were along the same lines, I'm glad you've taken the effort to type it up in a blog

Dear Prof Katti, Ever since the article tiger or s...

2008-07-05T10:07:13.041-07:00

Dear Prof Katti,

Ever since the article tiger or science appeared last sunday, I have been bombarded with a number of mails, not to mention incessant phone calls rebutting me for 'supporting INO' - there have also been a number of suggestions to respond to the article by Ms. Thakekara - all of which I put aside primarily because Care Earth and I are rather clear about the goal that we have set for ourselves. I was however compelled to communicate to you after reading your thoughts on the issue.

To begin with, even as Ranjit and I first discussed the possibility of working on the assignment, I was very sure that at some point of time, I would be targeted - questioning Ranjit's credentials on the Western Ghats would be suicidal and may infact be a stupid thing to do! It is really sad that we continue to target women scientists - hoping that they are easier to rattle. One NGO head went to the extent of calling me 'the female assistant of Ranjit Daniels'. I guess we are still used to only women 'achievers' who bask in reflected glory . Keeping a low profile I realise is bad PR.

It would really interest you to know that I did not make any presentation at the meeting that was referred to in the article - the mysterious presenter from Care Earth was Ranjit !! My job was restricted to welcome the gathering and taking down notes.

Further at no point did I make the comment that enraged locals - the truth is that the Panchayat and the locals from Masinaguid Panchayat were present in a good number at the meeting and the woman president who expressed her concern over the fact that none of the ngos that were supposedly protec ting the Mudumalai WLS were ever present in Masinaguid or have been part of their lives was heckled by the representatives of the NGOs. This enraged the locals and thepolice had to be summoned. So much for people based conservation.

Conservation on ground needs collaboration - and also plurality of thought and approach - it is precisely with this notion that teh INO team has repeatedly met and tried to discuss teh issue with the NGOs and environmentalists - all with near similar results of rude and offensive comments and refusal to even listen. As I was documenting the perceptions and attitudes of different groups towards the project - many of these environmentalists simply refused to talk - some went to the extent of giving appointments - never to show up.
As these groups go around fabricating juicy stories about INO - I am worried that the core issues would be sidelined.

Thank you once again for letting us know your thoughts.

Regards. Jayshree

dear Madhusudan, i am happy that you have taken ti...

2008-07-05T10:03:16.164-07:00

dear Madhusudan,

i am happy that you have taken time to write to me. yes, the Hindu article is just an attempt to sling mud at us in general and Jayshree in particular. 30 years after science in India has grown to a stage where it can guide conservation and wildlife census (as in the case of the tiger) we are still muddied by ill-informed and adamant self-styled environmentalist. we see the INO project as an opportunity save the last wildlife corridor in the locality and take the local people into confidence about science-based conservation. the local people want the project there, the Government of TN wants it there and the INO team that inludes premiere institutions like TIFR is also sensitive to the cause. the well funded project (Rs 800 crores) has a lot of potential for funding wildlife conservation here and what we have recommended is 10% of the total cost - in principle agreed. we have also requested that a high tech wildlife monitoring facility be established with the funds, located at the site and be handed over to NCBS/TIFR for long-term monitoring. agreed. as we are in the process of getting closer to achieving the mandate, irritants have come in with dirty pranks. any how i am glad that the serious conservationists have not suspectd our intentions but have taken time to seek clarification. of course, the construction will involve excess movement of vehicles - but this has been addressed as we are aware of the number that will be involved and have suggested means to limit the impact. what mosty people would not see is the fact that despite 75 years of TNEB presence here and 55 km of tunnels already within the Nilgiris landscape, mudumalai has the largest population of elephants and tigers; sure enough a resilient system and ideal to work on for long-term results and a novel conservation model. this is our view on the issue.

best wishes, ranjit

Thank you, Shubhra, for your compliment on the pos...

2008-07-04T10:22:31.640-07:00

Thank you, Shubhra, for your compliment on the post, and for setting me straight! I appreciate your thoughts too.

Amusing it is to picture myself sitting in my little corner of the blogosphere and frantically searching Google to defend my scientific brethren! It might interest you to know that, while I may be in Fresno, and indeed a long way from Mudumalai these days, I have spent over a decade working in Kalakad-Mundanthurai Tiger Reserve, which is the only Tiger Reserve in Tamil Nadu - unless that has changed in the very recent past! I am well aware that Bandipur-Nagarhole, adjacent to Mudumalai on the Karnataka side, form a Tiger Reserve, but Mudumalai is not part of the Reserve. I am familiar with Mudumalai, and Masinagudi, having been there several times, and would myself advocate that it should be part of an even larger Tiger Reserve. But I know the realities of government funding and how state forest departments work - and presumably why the Tiger Reserve status went to just one state rather than be spread over two. Come to think of it, the error I might have made is in calling Mudumalai a National Park when in fact it may still only be a Wildlife Sanctuary! But feel free to correct me again.

I do appreciate the constraints of newspapers, but is it too much to expect them to add a URL these days? Or to represent the story accurately? I have no problem with the simple maths, so yes, it could very well take 36 years to move all the debris out - So what? Besides who has said that all of it must be, or will be taken out anyway? The INO FAQ (which I had to google for because even the online version of the Hindu piece did not have a link!) clearly states that most of the debris will be stored on site! And if done properly, it could be kept there indefinitely.

I am also well aware of how tigers and elephants move, and have done my own share of fighting with various govt. agencies to address traffic in and around sanctuaries and tiger reserves. There are ways to address those issues, and my point here would be that the infusion of money from a different agency for this project could very well be used to set up a good alternative to what the FD has done so far.

I am glad that nowadays there are more people like you on the ground taking stands for these precious protected areas - and you can hold these govt agencies' feet to the fire more effectively there. I only hope for a more deliberate approach which allows for occasional collaboration with such projects to make sure the environment is not harmed while doing science, indeed to model good mitigation. Simply saying NO isn't always the best thing - it is always better to engage with whoever you think is on the other side, for you might even find nature-lovers there! Indeed in this case, I would be amazed if a majority of the physicists involved in the project are not keen to protect Mudumalai and its wildlife while building their lab - and it can be done in the context of this project. Have you or the other local environmentalists actually engaged in such an effort directly with the INO? And has the INO rebuffed such efforts? If they do, then I would definitely get even more in their face (from my safe distance) about this. I notice that you don't have anything to say about Care Earth's collaboration with the INO either.

But there I go rambling again, shooting my mouth off from my safe distance...

An excellent post I must say. Though a little ramb...

2008-07-04T08:37:07.562-07:00

An excellent post I must say. Though a little rambling and long winded, covers the entire INO issue rather well.
In case you haven’t noticed, the internet and your blogoshpere is not the same as the real world. Fresno is a long, long way from Mudumalai. Mudumalai is a Tiger Reserve, even if your Google search told you otherwise. It’s infinitely easier to hold forth on your own personal little blog than to actually get published and read by thousands of people.

It was good of you to lift and put together information off the internet, for that lesson on the neutrinos. 3200 odd words would be a good size of article for the Hindu do you think? In the real world, editors know from experience that the average reader isn’t waiting for science lessons from lofty bloggers, in his/her Sunday Magazine.

To get to the point, did it occur to you that it would take 36 years to move out 6,30,000 tons of debris that’s going to come out at the INO team’s stated rate of 6 round trips a day? Or did you choose to just blindly believe your scientific brethren over simple maths by an alarmist author?

The entrance to the TNEB plot that you consider “well outside the Reserve Forest” is, in fact, just a few hundred metres away from the Forest. Being first hand witness, I’d be glad to broaden your limited knowledge that the elephants and the tigers don’t go by your American notions of tiny spaces.

So while you continue to sit on the wall at a safe distance, take the trouble to get your facts right and your choices made before you shoot your mouth and make such feeble attempts to put down and disregard the efforts of those of us who are here, have taken an informed stance and are actively working towards a forward step for the country.